Geekesses are princesses

[secondlina]

For some reason, men seem to think holding a pencil requires balls. 
Go to any special comic meeting and the idiot in charge of the interviews will spot you, hunt you down and ask you the same damn question the've been asking for 20 years thinking they are helping out a feminist statement doing so.

Okay.

I'm wondering why this is still a question that needs to be asked. 

In european and american comics, the place of women is still relatively minimal. In european, comics for girls tend to be either unisex comics or sinfully girly ones. The comic audience is still men. I remember reading Spirou (the france equivalent of Jump but for french comics) and they had this special about women in comics. They showed a bunch of "comic heroines" and did a little article about female comic autors. The comic heroines almost all came from series where they serve as eye candy on the side. The article showed a few women from the beginning of the comic book industrie, followed by a gap in time and then a few more artists. American comics have the same odd problem. Comic for girls tend to be unisex (like runaways) or girly (Mary-oh-shoot-me-now-jane). I appreciate the quality of the unisex comics but i'm not sure I appreciate the girly side too much, especially since a lot of those girly comics and written and illustrated by men. 

I remember reading an article about the artist from Y: the last man who is female. She was telling the journalist how she was denied to work on several series because her artwork was "girly" Girly? GIRLY?!! It's the most basic american style ever! It's very similar to fable's drawing style...So how is it girly?

Manga is by far the comic industrie that gives the most space to women, which is most likely why so many of the anime fans are girls. They can relate more to that product. Even then though, Japan is a pretty darn sexist country: Ozamu Tekuza had to cross dress one of his heroins so that she could ride a horse and fight with a sword without putting some of the reader's parents into comatose shock. 

So what is the place of woman in the comic world? I'm not sure. Their place in the fanbase is obviously growing as the place of geek-ess is becoming less and less diminitive socially and more and an association with a group of people.  Geek is not something that marginalizes you anymore. The internet helps a lot. Most of the internet is porn, but a very good segment is dedicated to fandom. Inside the panels, some women still dress with string. I don't think that will ever change. I mean, they style make Jame bond style movies. It's difficult to stop treating women like objects. Men are also starting to be treated like objects in the media too. It's definitly a problem to be looked into.

As for woman in comiking. Humm. That role is growing too. In Japan and Europe, there is a lot of mangaka and bédéistes who are female. However not all of them can find serious work, often because of their "girly (?????)" style. (un)Suprisingly, the american comic business is still pretty hard to get into. It's totally a boy's club there. But then again, it's also a very dog-eat-dog world, so it's hard for everybody. Being the "weaker" (sic) sex just makes you look like an easier victim.

-Secondlina

Comments

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

I really don't care for most American comics because they are very much directed toward male audiences. If the women in the comics have breasts bigger than their head, and waists that could be snapped in half, I know it's no comic I want to be reading.

I say it's high time to kick men in the head and make something better. It's already known that women on average read more than men, and they'd probably read plenty of comics if they could relate to them.

[fenmere.livejournal.com]

I agree with the call to arms, and the disatisfaction with the industry. I take umbrage that you mean to do war with me when I want to work with you.

I'm an American male cartoonist. I read the works of both male and female cartoonists from around the world, but many of which are made in the U.S. by women for everybody.

Almost all the comics I read are webcomics. Some of them even make money for their creators. Most don't. What "we" need to do is keep spotlighting those creators that are actually good. Turn the industry upsidedown by uplifting the indy cartoonist. Start new publishing houses with better editorial philosophies. But more important than all that, "we" need to get more people reading comics.

The material is out there, waiting to be read. It's wide and varied and exciting, and it comes from men, women and children from any country, you just have to find it.

I post a good one to my LJ every time I find it. That's the best way to start.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

I agree with what you say: It's not that we lack female autors and/or good storylines. Comics by and/or for women exist. It's just not necessarly under the spotlight. It's the same with really astonishing works like Blankets or Strangers in Paradise. The work is awesome but it used to be considered underground. Maybe it's time to shed a bit of light on what creators do in less popular circles. I personnaly thing it's good that big houses like Dc and Merval have creator alternate logos like dark horse and vertigo to publish works that don't fll under the popular spandex mod. It shows that even the giants of the industry have a vision for alternate comic types.

I still think bone is one of the greatest comics i've ever read.

A comic artist heh? I'm glad you chose to participate in this discussion. Though this is mainly a rant based on poor information and the fact that i'm tired of being the "female token artist" to meetings I go to where it's always me and the same other girl who represent estrogen. The really should invite other girls.

[neshel.livejournal.com]

ahhh I borrowed ruralrambler's copy of the first Bone book. It was friggen awesome! That's done by a woman? I'm very bad at not looking at the names of comic artists.

Personally I mostly only read webcomics, and a good chunk of manga when I can get my hands on it. Mostly stuff that would be found in Shonen Jump, which I guess is male targeted right? And what, Shojo Beat is supposed to be female targeted? heh, well I don't know any women who read it, but my experience is limited.

Course I'm also not the average girl...

Anyway, the only female comic artist I can think of off the top of my head is Naoko Takeuchi (I know I spelled that wrong, its been too long) who did Sailor Moon. Which, I suppose could be considered "girly" with all the romance and mostly female cast but... mmmm, I didn't see it that way. Forget the Anime for a moment (and especially the dub) but the Manga is just a good read, and an oldie too. Plus she's quite guilty of drawing long legs, small waists and, well reasonably sized breasts.

I don't really know where I was going with this... my train of thought just derailed.

oh! there's an Indie artist named Kat(ie) on devArt that I adore, and her art is certainly not girly, and mostly gaming based, but on a different strain of humor than most gaming comics.

*rummages around*

Stupid devArt made this way too hard to find.

Anyway she's Hail-NekoYasha on devArt and recently opened her own webpage... www.akwardzombie.com , but the archives don't go back quite as far.

Anyway, thought I'd share that, I absolutely adore her work, oddly drawn and wacky sense of humour that it is.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

Bone is actually done by a man, but I think it's a good example of a unisex comic. Shonen is targeting male and Shojo female. It's blantly stated actually, if you know japanese, since shojo means "girl" and shonen "boy" (props to the japs for their originality). Both kind comes with a certain number of caracteristics. As an example: Shojo tend to have a cute pet sidekick.

Sailor moon was definitly shojo. It was actually one of the manga that defined the shojo type. But it's normal if you saw other stuff in it since Sailor Moon also references a lot of hentai and Sadist and masochist practices. The sailor uniform for instance is a big fat juicy sex symbol. The association with the moon is also very sexual (even if the moon represents purity. heh)

[kitesareevil.livejournal.com]

Ding ding ding! YOu spelled her name right, here's a Minako icon for that. ^_^

[neshel.livejournal.com]

Yahoo!!!!

[neshel.livejournal.com]

I have no idea why the link to Kaitlan's LJ didn't work.... O.o

*tries again*

ruralrambler

[fenmere.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. I dare say, I'd be totally fed up with being asked that damn question every con.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

That and "Do you think comics are too directed at men?" or "Is it hard to be a part of a business ruled by men" or even (my personal favorite) "Yeah, so you're doing comics now. Are you planning anything serious in the future? This is just a temporary state, after all."

Feh. That last one is asked to comic autors of both genders...

[dqbunny.livejournal.com]

I know that all male cartoonists aren't like you. You're probably familiar with the Something Positive webcomic. It's apparent that its creator has a very healthy respect for female artists, especially with how he crossed over with the Queen of Wands during its run, adopted Kestrel when it was finish and has promoted the sequel, Punch an' Pie.

But I also agree with Diane to an extent as well. I've been able to find in Japanese light novels/comics what lacks in a lot of the traditional DC/Marvel comics I grew up seeing on the rack. I would love to find a character like Lina Inverse that was created by an American artist, male or female. My problems with the vast majority of popular American comics isn't the fact that they're geared toward men, but the fact that they've been rebooted so many times that it's hard to follow the story. Granted, at times the Japanese aren't that much better, but it's still easier to follow.

But yeah, a lot of guys don't need to be kicked in the head. :)

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

Nah, but I do want to kick the 'artists' who don't understand human anatomy at all. (When the comic style is more cartoonish it's one thing, but when they're going for 'realistic' but can't even get it right....ow, my eyes!)

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

I didn't have the time to really go in-depth this morning, but I meant mainly comic books (not to be confused with comic strips, which are a completely different thing) that I've had the pleasure to be exposed to. I personally love comic strips (my favorite is Foxtrot, which is drawn by a man, but he speaks to geeks everywhere), and webcomics as well, but I don't know if they should really be lumped together with the comic book industry.

I think I just need to find people who read more varieties of comic books, because what few I've seen do not impress me at all. (And lets not get started on the abuse of the human anatomy in some of those..)

I'm all for turning the industry in its head. ^_-

[fenmere.livejournal.com]

That's OK. I kinda sensed that, and that we're really on the same page, but wasn't sure and felt I needed to speak up.

[secondlina.livejournal.com]

That might be a bit of an extremist jugement. I know of a few comics where women are slightly exagerated and yet the story is good. If anything, it might a bad association of an artist and a writer.

Men are starting to make things better since a lot of comics now are aimed at unisex audiences, like fables and runaways (and a lot of comics published by Vertigo). I don't think we should shoot down everything that was made by men. After all, Slayers is shonen. XD You just need to sample the work a lot, make sure you read the good stuff.

[ichiban-victory.livejournal.com]

I love a lot of things done by men, but there are a few comics I've seen that just...bleh. I don't like being seen as eye candy by guys who don't understand that comics don't always represent proper female anatomy (to put it simply). I'm going to wave my little white flag and say I was writing this before work, and I didn't have the proper time to make a well-rounded argument. You just got my main points. ^_^;;

[knightreborn.livejournal.com]

There's actually a reference we use in my store from time to time. "Bodies don't work that way." Take a look at Rob Lefield's stuff and prepare for your sense of anatomy to break. To name one of the biggest offenders anyway..and of course Michael Turner's covers from time to time. Ow.